That didn't go as planned

"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck) 03/08/2019 at 19:08 • Filed to: None

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It was snowy. It was cold. My daughter forgot her hat, gloves, and scarf on one outing, but she was not deterred. They only accept 6% of the applicants, but my daughter has decided to apply to Columbia as one of her “reach” schools - those that you would really like to attend but aren’t likely to gain admission. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I want her to have what she wants. On the other hand, I really don’t want her to go to a school so far away in a city so much bigger than she’s used to in a place which is so liberal in its thinking.

There were lots of things she didn’t like about New York City, but she said that the campus felt a lot different. Showing her truly nerdy side, she said it was like walking into Hogwarts. :)

In better news, I had a lot of time to get reacquainted with my WRX . With all the travel I’ve been doing, I’ve had very little time to drive my own car. I get a rental for all of the commuting so I don’t have to put so many miles on the WRX. Over the past week I was reminded just how fast and nimble this little hot hatch can be. Wowza. It was fun!

I’m ramping up for another two-week stint in Houston. I’m hoping the weather is nice so next weekend will be for flying. If it takes a turn for the worse, I’ll just drive home.

lone_liberal > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:14

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If it makes you feel better I’m a pinko atheist and I went to a Jesuit university. Neither of us changed.

OPPOsaurus WRX > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:14

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Yea the WRX is awesome. Thanks for the reminder.  I'm gonna go cry now

For Sweden > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:22

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It’s in the Ivy League. She’ll be studying with suit-wearing, investment-banking neocons in no-time.

TheRealBicycleBuck > OPPOsaurus WRX 03/08/2019 at 19:28

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You’re welcome to come down to a warmer state and go for a drive. 

CB > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:32

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Choosing a university/college is a huge decision, and she seems like an ambitious kid. That should take her far enough on her own.

As an aside, nothing wrong with a university that might differ from your opinion . I went to one I thought matched my opinion but actually ended up disagreeing in a lot of situations with what was said. Challenging views is good to either reinforce why you have them or to mend them into something better.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:37

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Good for her. I will be in that situation later this year, but I’m of the mind that you’ve got to let them stretch their legs. And NYC is an amazing place.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:41

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Columbia is costly yes? My kids will go to a state school if I’m paying for it.

OPPOsaurus WRX > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:45

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U have no idea how much I want to do that but there's works and kids and a wife

facw > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 19:50

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It’s a good school. For what it’s worth, a friend of mine’s brother went there as an evangelical Christian and didn’t come out a liberal atheist. The cost is absurd of course, but you do get a very good education, and the name recognition does open doors. NYC is not for everyone, but there is a whole lot to recommend it. And compared to the cost of tuition , flights home become a bit of a rounding error.

TheRealBicycleBuck > facw 03/08/2019 at 19:55

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She knows she can’t go without major grant and scholarship funding. We have a college fund for two kids going to state schools, not the Ivy League. She’s working hard to get funded. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 03/08/2019 at 19:55

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The only way it can happen is with lots and lots of grant and scholarship funding. 

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 20:04

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You also don’t want her to live in Harlem, or anywhere on Manhattan for that matter.

If she really wants to go to a school you can’t afford in a cold and snowy part of New York, send her to Cornell.  At least she’ll be safe there.  And she can take ice-climbing for PE when the falls freeze over.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 03/08/2019 at 20:08

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She visited Fordham University and promptly ruled it out. My wife compared the Bronx to a border town in Mexico (she would know since she grew up a few miles from the border).

Cornell isn’t on her list, but Harvard and a Yale are. She didn’t have enough time to visit them all. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 03/08/2019 at 20:23

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I put some elbow grease into grants and scholarships and you’d be surprised how many are on offer. Yale offered up half-price tuition to students of more modest means. Heck, my school has a retail price of 45-50k a year but I think my end bill was under 20k a year. And further scholarships and grants made that like less than 10k or so. The bigger costs were room, board, and books. 

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 20:24

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I used to spend my lunch breaks applying to anything and everything online. Like 15-20 minutes a day and I’d get 100$ here, 500$ there. Ended up graduating with about 7k of debt from a 50k/yr school. If it is meant to happen, it will happen.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 20:54

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Calling a campus liberal is a lot like calling water moist.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 21:14

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Well, Cambridge or New Haven will be better at least.

RIP you’re bank account. 

someassemblyrequired > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 22:14

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It’s a good school, but it is insanely expensive. What’s her major going to be ?

TheRealBicycleBuck > someassemblyrequired 03/08/2019 at 22:27

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She talking about several options. Eventually, med school, but she’s keeping her head on straight and avoiding the pre-med route. We’ve talked to her about making sure she has a degree she can use if a) she changes her mind and doesn’t apply to med school or b) she doesn’t get selected for med school. She’s all over the place from biomedical science or bioengineering to hospital administration.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 03/08/2019 at 22:32

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Fortunately, many of the ivy league schools have developed debt-reducing or no-debt programs. If she gets in, she should be able to go almost for free. I didn’t believe her when she told me, but a fellow I met at ground school has a daughter at Harvard. He confirmed that his daughter is getting a free ride.

Blew my mind.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 03/08/2019 at 22:33

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Made me laugh. I went to a very conservative university and taught at another. They’re out there.

someassemblyrequired > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 22:49

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Those schools are mostly a place to see and be seen - great places to make connections. Most schools are going to be similar quality - especially for something like engineering. There’s little difference between a good state school, and a brand name school.

If you aren’t eligible for much student assistance and are paying full fees out of pocket , s tudying overseas all four years might be more cost effective, even counting plane tickets. Some good Canadian schools are still relatively inexpensive:

https://www.mun.ca/undergrad/money/

https://www.dal.ca/admissions/money_matters/tuition_fees_costs/fee_schedules.html

UK schools max out around 35K, and they’re a three year program, if she’s ready to drink from the firehose.

Germany has a lot of universities and colleges that teach in English, and tuition is free at most schools (save for student fees) .

GLiddy > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/08/2019 at 23:13

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Since this has turned into a college recommendation thread, and I’m in the middle of my own high school Senior’s college selection struggle, here’s my suggestions .

Get her to apply to schools who meet 100% of demonstrated need. Its almost too late to do financial planning for her FAFSA application, as they will look at your 2017 tax returns when she applies in the fall. Assets that you list on the FAFSA can still be juggled to give you a lower expected family contribution. Those numbers are only locked in for the day you file it. If you’ll have any end-of-year expenses (like taxes), pay them before filing the FAFSA to get any account balances down. Likewise if your daughter has assets of her own, see if there’s a way to spend that down as any assets she holds in her name are directly applied to your expected contribution.

If you own any property you’ve been thinking of getting rid of, do it now and take the proceeds and put it into you home. Any improvements you’ve been wanting to do to your house, either with cash or by taking loans, do that now also. The college financial aid office penalizes people who have been good with money. Now, while money that you put into your home doesn’t show up on the FAFSA, it may be counted on individual schools’ financial forms, so that isn’t a universal way to shelter assets. Ditto for making any retirement account contributions before filing the FAFSA. Get those account balances down before hand.

Oh, and make sure that she has arranged all visits with the schools. Many schools count demonstrated interest in their admissions process.

Link to FAFSA formula for this year.

https://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/071017EFCFormulaGuide1819.pdf

TheRealBicycleBuck > GLiddy 03/08/2019 at 23:16

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Excellent information! Thanks!

TheRealBicycleBuck > someassemblyrequired 03/08/2019 at 23:51

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“Most schools are going to be similar quality - especially for something like engineering.”

I disagree with this evaluation. I spent a lot of years in state schools and was an assistant professor at another. I used to think they were all t he same, but I learned differently. While networking with other professors, I learned that my curriculum was far more rigorous than other professors’ curriculum. So, I started comparing, not only my courses, but also other courses. Although I didn’t do a formal investigation, I found that similar programs had wildly different requirements, even in engineering. After I left academia, I took a job with an engineering firm. We found that recent grads from certain schools had a lot more trouble passing the EIT and PE exams.

As much as I’d like to say all schools are created equal, the fact is they are not.

I think it’s a novel idea to go out of country for college, but my wife is having a lot of trouble letting our daughter visit a school over a thousand miles away. I’m not even a fan of that idea. Overseas is probably not going to happen.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

someassemblyrequired > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/09/2019 at 09:35

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Most is the key word there. I mean I’d in engineering there’s a long list of state schools I’d go to before Yale, for example.

Anyways good luck with the search - applying to reach schools is a good idea, simply because sometimes the financial aid packages are insane, even if you have a lot of family income.  But if you’ve got to take on a ton of loans, it’s not such a great plan vs. paying in-state tuition.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/09/2019 at 09:45

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I won’t tell my parents that.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 03/09/2019 at 13:13

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Those programs didn’t exist when you and I were going through school. I’m in school debt up to my eyeballs. I keep hoping to hit the lottery just to pay those off. I guess that means I should buy a ticket.

TheRealBicycleBuck > someassemblyrequired 03/09/2019 at 13:18

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Budget is a key consideration. My wife and I both had to take on substantial debt to get through school. Now that she isn’t working, it’s all on me to pay them off.

Our daughter knows what we can afford to pay for her to attend school. She has been very proactive about considering cost as she looks at schools. She understands that if the grant/cost reduction package  isn’t substantial and doesn’t meet our budget, she will have to forget about that school or commit to taking on loans to close the gap. 

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/09/2019 at 13:49

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The funny thing is, Cornell University is made up of constituent colleges, some of which are part of the SUNY system. That means that, for overlapping programs like Biology that were offered through with Arts & Sciences (private) or Agriculture (state) colleges, a NY resident could get the exact same education as an out of state student for a fraction of the cost (i.e: in state tuition in the SUNY system).

Didn’t matter to me though.  I was out of state all the way.  I am truly blest that my parents had the ability to pay for my college so that I emerged debt free.

whatisthatsound > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/09/2019 at 15:03

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I went to Fordham in the Bronx, it was a different animal for sure. However Lincoln center is in a much different location and if I could do it over again I would have tried to gi there. I loved going to school in NYC. Granted i was a full scholarship so nothing followed me after graduation but i wouldn’t trade those years for anything.